Stepping In Faith

THE ULTIMATE LOVE LANGUAGE: WHAT IF IT'S A PERSON, NOT A PREFERENCE?

• Stepping In Faith • Season 2 • Episode 7

Share episode

What if the “ultimate love language” isn’t a preference but a Person? We open in prayer and walk straight into agape —selfless, sacrificial, enduring love—and how it outlasts feelings, fixes what doesn’t fix, and the subtle contracts we make when we demand to be loved our way. We get honest about how childhood abuse, church hurt, and father wounds can warp how we receive love and how we see God. Then we talk healing that sticks: Jesus removes the shrapnel through deliverance, and therapy becomes a tool to renew the mind, not a bandage over a bullet wound.

We ground it in Scripture. John 3:16 reframes the cost of love; Ephesians 5 calls men to love like Christ; 1 Corinthians 13 confronts the root of conditional love. Along the way, we challenge the church’s complicity in enabling abuse and offer a safer, biblical path: love protects, speaks truth, and sets boundaries. If a partner is controlling, violent, or degrading, you’re not called to endure destruction God never ordained. We also unpack bloodline patterns—addiction, rage, adultery—and how the covenant with Jesus breaks cycles when confession, repentance, and Spirit-led obedience become daily life.

We also sit with grief and the hard lesson of letting go: sometimes love means releasing people to God’s will rather than trying to be their savior. Discernment becomes your lifeline—studying patterns, listening to the Holy Spirit, and refusing to marry to fix a feeling or a situation. When agape becomes the foundation, homes heal, children learn safety, and both men and women grow in a love that doesn’t bargain.

If this spoke to you, share it with someone who needs clarity and courage. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what truth about love changed how you show up in relationships?

Ready to dive deeper? 🎧 Join us on YouTube for the full video podcast where we explore faith, love, and relationships through a Christian lens. Whether married, single, or seeking spiritual growth, our episodes offer practical advice and profound insights to strengthen your walk with Jesus. Don’t forget to subscribe and hit the notification bell so you never miss a powerful episode. Let’s grow together in faith and purpose!

👉 Start at the beginning! Watch the full episodes on YouTube now!

👉 Watch the latest episode on YouTube now!



SPEAKER_00:

Welcome back to another episode of Stepping in Faith, where together we explore the importance of having a relationship with God and how that relationship with God can impact the relationship you have with others. I'm your host, Walter. I'm joined here alongside my lovely wife.

SPEAKER_08:

Shinea.

SPEAKER_00:

And it is almost 12 o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah, so we are after hours.

SPEAKER_00:

No, we're not.

SPEAKER_11:

So, um or whatever time you're watching this.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11:

But we are after hours.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know why you're using that voice. So, um, this is episode seven. I don't know. And season two. Yes, episode seven, season two. We know it's been challenging, but we try to get these dropped as much as possible. We'll get back on schedule at some point. But thank God that we're here now. So uh I think the way that we start these out as believers is in prayer. And you prayed last time?

SPEAKER_11:

I believe I did.

SPEAKER_00:

You sure?

SPEAKER_11:

I think so.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_11:

If not, somebody can tell us in the comments.

SPEAKER_00:

They will let us know. So I will start us out in prayer. Father God, as we come before you this morning, we are so grateful for your love, your mercy, your grace, your kindness. We pray that your perfect will will be carried out. Let this podcast, Father God, reach those that you've called for it to reach. Holy Spirit, we submit to you. We surrender to you. Lord Jesus, we welcome you and allow us to be led by your Spirit in all we do. Allow us to be led by you in what we say. Allow this to penetrate the hearts, God, of those that you've called for it to penetrate. We thank you for your guidance, your wisdom, your direction, your understanding. Yes, in Jesus' name we pray.

unknown:

Amen.

SPEAKER_08:

Amen.

SPEAKER_00:

So, what's the name of this week's episode?

SPEAKER_08:

The ultimate love language.

SPEAKER_00:

I guess this is on par last episode. We touched on the gifts of the spirit or the gift of marriage, actually.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So I don't know, I was just sitting there and I heard I don't like he wanted us to talk about love again. But from this perspective, agape love. Uh I was thinking about it uh from the perspective of the five love languages. Uh what is it?

SPEAKER_11:

You said what?

SPEAKER_00:

The five love languages.

SPEAKER_11:

He was thinking about the five love languages?

SPEAKER_00:

The five love languages came to mind, yes.

SPEAKER_11:

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00:

And so what is it? Touch. Um what's the five love languages? Do we have it here? What are the five love languages? Let me pull it up real quick.

SPEAKER_08:

Was it physical touch? Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_11:

I don't know it off the top of my I'm sure a lot of people out there know.

SPEAKER_00:

They do. But the way um so the five love languages are words of affirmation, acts of service, receiving gifts, quality time, physical touch. So um, with that being the case, it was interesting to me because when we think of how love is supposed to look, um the way that many of us approach the five love languages, and I don't I'm not necessarily saying that the author of this, because he was he's a Christian, um when he wrote this book, I'm not necessarily saying he wrote it from the perspective of approaching it from a selfish place. But when you think of the five love languages and how it's approached uh in relationships and what have you, it's approached from a selfish perspective. These are the way that you can love me and the other party, these are the way that you can love me. And if you're not doing these things for me, then you're not loving me the way I desire to be loved.

SPEAKER_09:

Yeah, there's a sense of control there.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. And so one of the things that was coming to me earlier is that sometimes um issues, as you know, as a child, many of us, it shapes how we approach and view love. Um, it could shape what we think we need, because we can begin to approach love from a broken place or a place of trauma and unresolved issues or unhealed wounds, a place of being wounded, uh, which can negatively impact your relationship with God and receiving and giving love from the place God designed for us to do well. And when we think of how God has called for us to love, um, and we we've said this so many times in previous episodes, it's from a place of the spirit. It's actually a decision that you have to make to operate within that love. And so for me, I think about um some of the challenges that I went through as a child, um as far as uh some of the abuse that I experienced.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh you already know this. I lost my dad when um I was nine months. Um I did not find out that the the guy that my my mother was with uh was not my biological father until I was around 10 years old. Um I had memories of my dad. I had memories of this man, tall man, uh sitting down at this table with me. Uh that's one of the only memories I have of my my biological father. And apparently he was like he let no one. Like no one. Yeah, he was like, You ain't holding my son. I was the son that he wanted. And so um the experiences that I went through as a child, which was uh extreme um uh instances of abuse, yeah, uh, by way of my wife, um I keep saying wife, by way of my mother's uh ex-husband.

SPEAKER_11:

I haven't abused you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And um it was negatively impactful because he was a bishop.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so I'd be the worst one. Exactly.

SPEAKER_09:

That'd be the worst one.

SPEAKER_00:

So I have this, you gotta be careful with your hands so you don't lose focus. So I have this um this uh man who is a leader in the faith. Um at the time he had over seven different churches that was under him, and everyone would always talk about how amazing of a man he was, but he was uh being physically, emotionally uh abusive. And um he, I let my sister tell it to her, you know, at some point, but he took her through some things and he took me through some things as well. And so with those experiences, it shaped for me, it created a negative perspective when it came to fathers. I began to look at fathers like I don't trust them. Yeah, I didn't trust uh father figures because of what I dealt with with him and the fact that he had two different sides. And that unknowingly began to shape my perspective on how I approach things with God.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah, unknowingly.

SPEAKER_00:

Unknowingly.

SPEAKER_11:

Like subconsciously, that's how you treated God. It's how I treated God because my father was also absent, even though you had a father per se, but he was not your biological father. Yeah. Um he was a stepfather who still was not a father. He was not a father. He was the father figure that you had.

SPEAKER_00:

And well, his but uh the interesting thing with him and how he approached me and my sister, uh, he had a twisted and warped view of how he approached the relationships that he had with us. Um it was more from a self-gratification uh perspective. And so thankfully, you know, I know my sister went through some stuff that uh uh completely shifted the project uh projectory of her life uh forever.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, and thankfully God delivered us from that before he did the same thing to me.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Because that was where it was heading based on some of the stuff he was doing. But I said all of that to say uh this is why it's really important that we understand uh we have to deal with those things. Because if not, then what things? The trauma. The trauma, the uh the wounds, all of those things. Because even when I became a father, for some time it was hard for me to approach discipline with baby girl.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Or hear her uh be disciplined. If she would scream or holler or anything like that, even if she wasn't being spanked, uh, it was just her reacting, you know.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah, traumatizing.

SPEAKER_00:

It would literally trigger me back to childhood traumas because I know that, you know, over the plethora of busted lips, uh broken, I had the broken jaw, all of those different things, the black eyes and then seeing.

SPEAKER_11:

So he used to beat you. The crap out of you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. It was yes, with his his with his fist. And the same with my mom and the same with my sister.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so um, it made me become a person that was overly loving, especially with with her, uh, because I didn't I I knew what he did wasn't right.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I didn't, the only thing I knew is I could not be that. But for it took a while, and even now, uh more recently over the past few years, to begin to work through those things and begin to approach uh love from a perspective uh because I noticed that there would begin, they begin to be a pattern in my relationships. And so, and a lot of women go through that. And so, because I was abused, I ended up being in relationships that were abusive and controlling and how they approached it because we talked about this in the previous episode. There's a stench that it gets on you. Yeah, you carry, and you attract those people who you know want to take advantage of you and all of those things.

SPEAKER_11:

Who has those same demons to water the seeds that were planted inside of you from those other wicked people.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_11:

So it's like, oh, I'm a fertilizer. Let me fertilize this seed I see in you.

SPEAKER_00:

And it just keeps that cycle being like that cycle repeating, which is when we dig into bloodline curses. And uh that's something I think we were talking about wanting to really discuss the importance of to everyone that's listening, uh doing research on your bloodline and really studying the patterns in your uh family tree, studying those cycles, because a lot of times they continue on because no one ever resolved the bloodline curse. And how that curse got there could be a plethora of ways. It could be a word curse that was spoken, it could be witchcraft, it can be um disobedience, it can be open doors from sin or disobedience, it could be a number of ways that those uh curses connect to you. And I believe part of the way that it becomes a bloodline curse, if we look at just from a if you study what you know, uh you can study the scriptures, you can look at it from a quote unquote statistical perspective, it's always a repeated cycle. And I believe that no one ever deals with it.

SPEAKER_11:

So like your dad's an alcoholic, your brother's alcoholic, your mom's an alcoholic, or your mom's a drugie, or your dad's a drugie.

SPEAKER_00:

So you have some there's some type of addiction, whether it's food, drugs, it can go from food to alcohol to drugs to sex.

SPEAKER_11:

And so, or you have um or there's um some type of controlling, or some type of there's there's rage, there's anger there.

SPEAKER_00:

Um that grows and it can get all the way up to now you got an alive people six family members who's committed murder or committed adultery.

SPEAKER_11:

It's it's in your bloodline. Your dad cheated on your mom, your dad's dad cheated on his his wife, his wife, you know, just and that's when I now you're wondering why. Dang, why I can't be faithful.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's why when I I looked at my bloodline, both my mother and my father. Um, my mother was abused by her stepmother. My mother actually lost her mother when she was a baby. Um, my granddad remarried, and the woman he remarried was a horrible person. And she made it her due diligence to torture the crap out of my mom. And then my gr my dad, he was abused by my grandfather uh because I say this respectfully, but he believed my grandmother was in those streets. She was a pretty woman. And so um my dad would be the one that would defend my grandmother, which led to him being beat horribly, which in return led to him actually having the tumor on his brain because he would always get hit.

SPEAKER_09:

In the head?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. That consistent trauma caused that.

SPEAKER_09:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so when you look at those things, I begin to see a pattern. And now, okay, me and my siblings, you know, me and my sister specifically, went through abuse. And so it's like, okay, we have to stop this. And so, but the thing is, the only way that you can stop it truly is through Jesus. Because you try, yeah, but you still fail because you have a stench on you.

SPEAKER_11:

Mm-hmm. You recognize the behavior, you can go to therapy, you could talk through it. It's like, oh, this is where this happened. But then you need Jesus to help you close the door.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, because you would end up getting into a relationship with someone that's not good, and you may be free from that or get yourself out of that relationship, but now you've had children with them, and now they're taking the children through the same thing that you went through. You're free, you're no longer dealing with it, but the enemy still got you because now he's repeating that cycle through your seeds.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Which is why once again we get back to the point of having to submit our lives to God so that we can break the cycle. You can break the dysfunctional cycle that falls in a lot of our families.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So when you think of like the first thing that came to me was John 3.16.

SPEAKER_09:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And we know what John 3.16 says, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him shall not shall not perish, but have eternal life. So NLT, yes, it says, for this is how God loved the world. He gave his one and only son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but have eternal life. God, this is verse 17. God sent his son into the world, not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. The greatest level of love that God has is what? He sent his son and Jesus gave up his life willingly, right? And now this moves into Ephesians, right? We love Ephesians. Men love Ephesians, and we love Ephesians because of what? The first part of Ephesians, verse 22. For wives, this means submit yourselves, or submit to your to your husband as to the Lord. For a husband is the head of his wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the savior of the body, the church. As the church submits to Christ, so your wives should submit to your husbands and everything. That's what we focus on. We forget verse 25 where it says, For husbands this mean love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God's word. He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church, without a spot or a wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault. In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man who loves his wife actually shows love for himself. No one hates his own body but feeds and care for cares for it, just as Christ cares for the church. And so, and and that's it, we'll stop there. One of the things that we have to understand, and we'll move on. Part of the issue is that men aren't able to love your wives because you don't love yourself.

SPEAKER_11:

And you don't love God.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. And so when you think about agape love, right? Which is the highest form of love, right? Agape love is what? Is selfless, which you're going to touch on?

SPEAKER_10:

Yes, unconditional.

SPEAKER_00:

It's uh selfless, it's unconditional, is sacrificial, is sacrificial. Sacrificial, I'm sorry. Uh it's it's a selfless, sacrificial, unconditional love that seeks the good of others without expecting anything in return. And one of the things that God always dealt with me on as we went through our journey, and it was really me having to die to self, is loving you in spite of.

SPEAKER_03:

How you feel?

SPEAKER_00:

He never went beyond that. It the in spite of is everything.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

It's like you have to learn to love her in spite of, right? Is what he would consistently say to me. And then also to love you through him. Meaning this love, this agape love that we're getting into, it's only possible through the power of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God.

SPEAKER_11:

Because it's a fruit.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_11:

Love is a fruit of the spirit.

SPEAKER_00:

It's a part of the fruit of the spirit.

SPEAKER_11:

And so it's hard to love someone, even love yourself if you don't host the Holy Spirit because He brings the fruit.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And when we're saying fruit, essentially love is basically one of the characteristics of God.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

It's a part like the way that God was giving him to me earlier on. When you think of the fruit of the Spirit, it's literally you taking upon the DNA of God and allowing God to restructure your DNA to where now you operate how he operates. So now when people see you, they literally, they literally see a reflection of Christ.

SPEAKER_11:

Right, because he's made us in his image.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_11:

But if you're not made in his image, meaning you're not born again, then your your perception of love is perverted.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. So now your love becomes conditional.

SPEAKER_11:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

So when you think of um let me see just uh from a perspective of conditional love, which is honestly the way many people approach love, right?

SPEAKER_11:

Uh it's you give me, I give me, you, I give you, you give me. It's the those those five languages.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's the challenge, right? And the way that they they misconstrue that, right? Yeah. Because conditional love means love that is dependent on certain behaviors, circumstances, or expectations being met. It's the opposite of conditional or agape love, right? So conditional love is affection or approval given only if specific conditions are satisfied, are satisfied, right? So, for example, I love you if you do what I want you to. I care for you when you behave like this. You deserve my love as long as you don't disappoint me. And so because of that, right? What you look? What you looking at?

SPEAKER_11:

Just keep going. You go.

SPEAKER_00:

So some of the characteristics of that would be it's performance-based. It's fear-driven, right? So performance-based is love is earned, not freely given. Fear-driven is people may fear rejection or abandonment if they fail to meet expectations. And we know that uh rejection, abandonment, all of those things are huge when you're approaching love from a conditional perspective. Now, all of all of these things that I'm speaking of is the complete opposite of 1 Corinthians 13.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And then it's temporary. It could fade when circumstances change or expectations aren't met. Controlling, right? If all it's often manipulate, it often manipulates others into doing what the giver wants. Fragile trust.

SPEAKER_11:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Relationships built on conditional love lack emotional safety, was you about to say.

SPEAKER_11:

Right. So, like the five love languages, like focus on how people prefer to receive love. And First Corinthians talks about how we're supposed to give it. It teaches you how you're supposed to give it. Doesn't matter how like how you feel. Because you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00:

Because from that perspective, it's the it's a decision that's made, not from a selfish perspective. Because when you think of agape love, it's selfless.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah. It's not respecting anything in return. But the five languages teaches you, okay, well, I have to receive something from you.

SPEAKER_00:

In order for me to give.

SPEAKER_11:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Which is conditional.

SPEAKER_11:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And the challenge becomes, and I'm I'm not, we're not throwing jabs at anyone, we're just speaking on it, right? The challenge becomes that uh the body of Christ, because we aren't spiritual beings, or we are spiritual beings, but we don't move from a place as spiritual beings should move. The challenge becomes that we adapt uh worldly ideas and uh an extra uh or uh a pagan, it's not a word. So I'm not gonna say paganistic, but a pagan-like mindset.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And how we approach relationships and how we approach love, whether it be romantically or in just a friendship or whatever, and like how we approach it is necess is not necessarily right.

SPEAKER_11:

No, it's worldly. And so like I was just thinking, and I had just put this in, um, because while you were talking about the five love languages, I was also thinking about the characteristics of love, right? And so, like, words of affirmation is like, oh, well, if you don't tell me you love me, then I feel unloved. And it's just like, well, biblically, I'm not required to tell you I love you all the time. Like that, like I'm not required to validate you, would have to know by by the spirit. Like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00:

I see what you're coming at. Um, I think it's just ultimately.

SPEAKER_11:

It's like you're not depending on me to affirm you. Well, the thing is this, like because I'm loving you through God's spirit. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I I believe the thing is this.

SPEAKER_11:

Uh or like if you don't give me gifts, you don't love me.

SPEAKER_00:

I get where you're coming from, but you gotta be real careful that people don't misconstrue it. And so what I would say is this uh, as I went through the process, when you are loving someone the way God is called for you to love them, uh, you love them from a perspective of not looking for anything in return. So, for example, if God has called for me to be the head of the household, um, I love you through God, right? I love you through his spirit. Uh, and in return, you do the same thing. But me loving you the way God is intended for me to love you from an agape type perspective, uh, is not from the perspective of me doing it because I'm looking for something in return for you. It's from the perspective of me doing it because I made a decision to do it, and vice versa. That's why when Jesus speaks, he tells us to love one another, right? And so I think the challenge is you're trying to do the same thing. But we talked about this before, the example I gave, where you have two husbands buy flowers for their wives. They're both doing the same thing, but the challenge, the difference is their motive. Your heart posture is the biggest thing. So it could look like you have this couple that is madly in love or whatever the case may be, but their love is conditional. But they live out life just like the other couple that loves each other based off of a decision that they've made and stated that, hey, I'm going to love you through the spirit, so I don't look for anything in return, and vice versa is the same, yet I'm giving the way that God has called me to give. I'm laying down my life for you.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So now when we move to 1 Corinthians 13, right, we begin to live that out, uh loving each other through Christ, right? And this becomes a perfect harmony type situation. So when now we both live out love is patient, verse 4. Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way, it is not irritable and it keeps no record of being wrong. It does not rejoice about injustice, but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith. It's always hopeful and endures through every circumstance. So, and then I think the challenge is, right? There is a greater, and people may not like this, but it's just what scripture says, there is a greater level of responsibility placed on men in the relationship because the Bible didn't say women love your wives as Christ loved the church. The Bible says, men love your wives as Christ loved the church. And how did Christ show that he loved the church? And I'm paraphrasing, the Bible says that he laid down his life for the church. Right? We become the ultimate example because when you think of Christ, Christ is the example for us. His church, he's the example for his church on how his church is to live life out. He became the example for his disciples. And that's how we're to approach love. So you are rightly is from the spirit, but both parties should be partaking in it and doing what Jesus called us to do, yet there is still technically a greater level of responsibility placed on the men.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah, no, I guess I could rephrase it and say that the five love languages is your perception of what you need. And that's not what First Corinthians is saying.

SPEAKER_07:

No.

SPEAKER_11:

It's saying loving someone through God's spirit. And God is the only one who knows what you need. And so you have to let go of those. I need you to touch me, I need you to affirm me. I need you to buy me things. I need you to do this. I need you to do that. But God's love doesn't require that. It's it's I'm not saying that you're not gonna get gifts. I'm not saying you're not gonna get affirmed. I'm not saying you're not going to get material things. It's just you shouldn't put an expectation on what you think you deserve in in your will, but God's will for you and what you he thinks is best for you. Like you have to accept that. Like, and it's just um like um what am I trying to say? Uh I just lost my word. Well, I mean, the challenge with, for example, let's let's put it because like when we got together, you were loving me, right? And the way that God called you to, and I had to accept it, even though I might not have liked some of the things or agreed with some things. There are things that I thought that I needed, I wanted. But then when you started doing stuff, I was like, oh, I didn't know I needed that. I didn't know how to do that. But why did that?

SPEAKER_00:

But and that goes back to what we discussed in the beginning. The problem is because what you did is when you came into the marriage, you came uh into the marriage with not only expectations, but with trauma.

SPEAKER_11:

Yes, also trauma.

SPEAKER_00:

You came into marriage with um expectations, with trauma, unresolved wounds, uh, and that goes into being in relationships with people previously that were not good, and that goes all the way back into marriage or the marriage you were in, uh, your childhood, all of those things, which in return impacted how you approach life from that perspective, which is why we had the conversation before uh where I was telling you that how you act or the things that you said did not match with how you act, which caused me to be conflicted because I'm like, okay, there was a tug of war, and a part of that reason was because you were a person that was hurt. And that is a reflection of many women and men. And this is why we should never be in a situation of moving outside of God. Because when you do that, uh, the Bible says, What? My people perish because of the lack of knowledge.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

You end up being broken.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And now you've been bring that broken part of yourself to something that God has designed for you, and you can't even accept it and receive it.

SPEAKER_03:

Or see it.

SPEAKER_00:

Or see what it is.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so um, this goes back to why we have to get past just therapy, right? Therapy alone is not going to fix your wounds and your trauma. No, deliverance does. Deliverance, um, healing comes from a spiritual perspective. Because it it, I don't care what people think, because we know some people be watching our channel, but we're not gonna get on that. Anyhow, um, when I was, and at some point we'll be able to share our testimony, everyone. But um when I was uh going through the process of like my conversion, and my eyes were uh uh uh opened and I was able to see things spiritually, right? And you know, we talk about visions and things like that, open visions, yeah, and me seeing you uh cry out heavily and could feel I told you I could feel the the like it was like it was an overflow and it was a heavy level of like brokenness, and it's a reflection of what was going on within you, and so therapy can't get to that.

SPEAKER_11:

My soul.

SPEAKER_00:

Your soul, your spirit, Jesus is the only one.

SPEAKER_11:

Only Jesus can restore that. Psalms 23.

SPEAKER_00:

So many Christians too, right? They try to go through therapy to get that restored, but you're still broken. They just basically take and place a band-aid on it, right? You're putting a band-aid on a bullet wound, which is why, for example, when I went through therapy, I still, even with therapy, trying to use it, I needed my therapist all the time because as soon as I got off speaking to her, I was struggling again.

SPEAKER_11:

Because it is a bullet wound, it's not fixed, it's not healed, it's it's needing healing. Yes, it's needing to go through healing. And the and Jesus is the one to do that. He's Psalms 23, like literally, like, I want for nothing. Like, I because I have you. And because I have you, I'm restored, I'm led beside still waters. I'm I'm good, I'm at peace.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, see, I think the challenge is-I have everything that I need.

SPEAKER_11:

I'm not thirsting for anything.

SPEAKER_00:

I think the challenge is this, and we talked about therapy before. The challenge is it's like literally, you have a bullet wound. I mean a shotgun. Many, some of us, we got shotgun wounds. Yeah, we have bullet wounds all over the body that are bleeding out in multiple places. This is really the story for so many people, right? And you keep having people basically try to wrap those wounds when what needs to take place, right, is you have to have those bullets removed. The bullets aren't being removed.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Then you have to go through the process of having a process of having that sewn up. You know, you're a nurse practitioner having that sewn up and you you've dealt with trauma. Now you go through all of those different things to actually properly heal it. Right. From a from your perspective in your profession, is it going to heal if you just wrap it? And it's a bullet wound that's bleeding out, that's stuck in your body.

SPEAKER_09:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

It's the craziest thing, but that's how we approach it. And the only physician that can remove these bullets out of your body is Jesus.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Then you can go through therapy. But when you go through therapy, I believe that, and we talked about this, therapy should be approached differently now. Because therapy becomes more of a discipled type perspective because now your mind has to be renewed.

SPEAKER_11:

Right. And it's accompanied with deliverance. You can't have one without the other.

SPEAKER_00:

And so that is that. And I did we get off, did we get off uh subject?

unknown:

I don't think we did.

SPEAKER_11:

No, I I think it all kind of ties together.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's you know, the the the route that we should take. And the challenges, like I said before, like even when we started our marriage, the the importance of um men being where God has called for you to be is because sometimes God may call for you to walk your wife through some stuff that's uncomfortable. And so a lot of times, um, as I went through my conversion and you was doing whatever you were doing, um I would go to God and be like, yo, she's doing this, she's doing that, she did this to me, she did that to me. And interestingly, God would always focus on me. But you did this, but you did that. You wasn't supposed to do this, you wasn't supposed to do that. And I would see examples in the scripture on how you're supposed to move.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah, and it's almost like, you know, um, like God, I'm doing all these good works, but I'm not being acknowledged. And it's like, well, I didn't tell you to do that. You got you got what you got because you did something you weren't supposed to do, even though your intentions might have been good.

SPEAKER_00:

Or your heart is wrong. Yeah, you're not supposed to be doing that from the perspective of trying to get um recognition, yeah. Right? And that was it. Like uh the point I was making, even with words of affirmation, the challenge with that is that when you find, when you start allowing people or looking to people to affirm you instead of God, that is a very dangerous place to be. Because if that that person has that much power over you, that they're gonna be able to do it. Because the words exactly they it's life and death in the power is literally in the power, or is in the power of life and death is in the time.

SPEAKER_11:

So if you're looking for someone to speak over you, what are they speaking over you? You want them to speak life unto you, a human.

SPEAKER_00:

You have to get that from Jesus. You have to get that affirmations, those affirmations from Jesus. You have to get that from God because the that we see example after example in this.

SPEAKER_11:

Now those words could be spoken through a person. A person like you, like if God's using you to speak to me and affirm me and encourage me, that's different. But if I'm just I'm like, you haven't said this and you haven't said that. What's that scripture? You haven't done this, so now I feel I feel abandoned, I feel unloved, I feel unworthy.

SPEAKER_00:

What's that scripture?

SPEAKER_11:

What's scripture?

SPEAKER_00:

I listen, uh, you know, the Roman soldier. Um Matthew eight, five through thirteen. Matthew, Matthew eight, five through thirteen. Uh five through thirteen. So verse five. Um Jesus returned to Capernam, a Roman officer came and pleaded with him, Lord, my young servant lies in bed paralyzed and in terrible pain. Jesus said, I will come and heal him. But the officer said, Lord, I am not worthy to have you come into my home. Just say the word from where you are, and my servant will be healed. I know this because I am under the authority of my superior officers, and I have authority over my soldiers. I only need to say, go, and they go, or come and they come. And if I say to my slaves, do this, they do it. When Jesus heard this, he was amazed. Turning to those who were following him, he said, I tell you the truth, I haven't seen faith like this in all Israel. And I tell you this that many Gentiles will come from all over the world from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob at the feast in the kingdom of heaven. But many Israelites, those for whom the kingdom was prepared, will be thrown into out of darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then Jesus said to the Roman officer, Go back home, because you believe it has happened. And a young servant was healed that same hour. And so the point that I'm making with this, and what was coming to me, is this right here. It's so important that you allow Jesus to speak over to you, over you, because when He speaks over you, his word has power.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

It has power, life-giving power.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Life-giving power.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And we talked about this before. We discussed earlier how uh word curses become an issue because you have people speaking over your life and they're cursing you.

SPEAKER_09:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

You have spouses speaking over each other's life and they're cursing them. You have parents speaking over their children's lives and they're cursing them.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You have grandparents that are speaking over their children's lives and they're cursing them. You have pastors and leaders that are speaking over their congregation lives and they are cursing them.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So we have to be really careful when it comes to words of affirmation and in general, the five love languages.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And so moving on, we've been there for a second. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03:

No, you got it.

SPEAKER_00:

So, from a Christian theological perspective, right? Agape is the kind of love God has for humanity and that believers are called to show towards God and others. It's not based on emotion or attraction, but on a will, choice, and moral commitment. And so that is the difference between conditional love versus unconditional love. Because you hear this thing all the time with people, I fell in love with you. Oh my gosh, I fell in love with you.

SPEAKER_07:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

It's a feeling. Oh, it feels so good and it's just great. Like I feel like I love you because I'm I'm I'm drawn to you by my eyes. You're so this. You have this type of all of these different things.

SPEAKER_11:

You have all these characteristics that I perceive would make me feel like I should be with you.

SPEAKER_00:

But from that perspective, one day you're gonna wake up and it's not gonna be there. Because there's a difference between that and making a decision and saying, I have decided to love you, especially when I know that I am where God has called me to be. Or I have made a decision to love my brother or sister in the faith. Because I know this is what God has called for me to do.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And so that's really important, right? There's a commitment that comes with love when you're looking at it from an agape type perspective. That even when Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane, literally knowing everything that he was about to face, because of the decision that he made, right? He still went on with everything that he was supposed to do.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But that's the type of love that God has called us to have. Even when it requires you to give up every part of yourself.

SPEAKER_11:

Picking up our cross daily, dying to self. Sacrificial love.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah.

SPEAKER_11:

If you love me, keep my commands and pick up your cross.

SPEAKER_00:

So key characteristics once again, unconditional. It's not dependent on how others act or feel, sacrificial, willing to give or endure for the benefit of another, uh, selfless, focused on others' well-being rather than uh personal gain, enduring, remain steadfast despite hardship, rejection, or betrayal. So if we want to think about what love is really supposed to look like, is right here.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And it's reflected in uh 1 Corinthians 13.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But the true love languages, right? The true love language is agape love and it's unconditional, it's sacrificial, it's selfless, and it's enduring. That's true love. And so it's a choice, it's a decision that you make. So we have, for example, uh we've given you John 3:16, we've given you first Corinthians 13, right? We you can even look at 1 John 4 and 8. And maybe you want to pull it up real quick and read that.

SPEAKER_09:

What?

SPEAKER_00:

1 John 4 and 8.

SPEAKER_05:

1 John 4, verse 8.

SPEAKER_11:

Yes. But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

SPEAKER_00:

God is literally the epitome of love.

SPEAKER_11:

God is love.

SPEAKER_00:

Literally. Literally. So if you don't know God, you have not loved.

SPEAKER_09:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And you don't know how to approach love. And that's just what it is. Lit it's literally understanding that agape love is is uh the very nature of God. He literally just, that's who he is. And his greatness and his life.

SPEAKER_11:

He sacrificed his only son.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, think about this. Like, even when you look at our lives, I was out here doing what I wanted to do. I was not thinking about God. I was on the brink of, I was in such a challenging place. Um, spent going through so much, dealing with so much, uh, struggled with depression for some time.

SPEAKER_11:

Um You thought you loved God.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. I turned my back on him actually because of what I went through as a child.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And um I always had that complex when it came to pastors. And I had some pastors in my life, you know, because of what I did. And, you know, I grew up in a church, I was a PK, and so I hung out with other PKs. So I had an opportunity to see uh certain pastors up close and personal. And so I would always see the same thing every time. And I turned my back on them. There was always like an understanding that there was certainly. Yeah. I I had I had uh church hurt that caused me to um think that that was a reflection of God.

SPEAKER_11:

Right. And so God is supposed to be love.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_11:

And if this is love, I don't want it.

SPEAKER_00:

And it's like they they turn their back on me, they hurt me, they abuse me. And I have friends that went through similar situations with pastors. I had friends that had extremely traumatic experiences all the way out to um being taken advantage of sexually.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Men, yeah, male friends that had pastors do this to them. And so I was just like, bro, this is what it is. And God still, in the midst of all of my stuff, my disobedience, um, me doing what I want to do, me turning my back on him, he still reached down and he saved me. He didn't have to, but he did. Jesus still loved me in spite of all of that.

SPEAKER_10:

Yeah, because he chose you first.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. And so you can't tell me that he's not loved because I literally no one understands how it feels to um be at that point where you have uh something pointed at yourself that can cause mass destruction on yourself. And nothing anyone says can change your thought process of what you want to do. But Jesus.

SPEAKER_11:

Literally only Jesus.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

And I saw myself go from a space where therapy wasn't working to going through the process of conversion and um giving my life to God, not in the church, as I said before, it happened in my apartment, my one bedroom apartment by myself, just me and Jesus. Right. And I dedicated my life to God, not just saying, Jesus, I dedicate my life to you. I accept you as my Lord and Savior, but showing and it being something in my heart and saying that you're all I got. And that's all I need. And so um that saved me from those things to where till this day, almost three years later, I've never struggled with that again. Yeah, therapy can't do that.

SPEAKER_11:

It show can't.

SPEAKER_00:

Only Jesus can show. And we're not saying that we're against therapy, no, we're just saying it can't do what Jesus can do. He's the true healer, he's the true fixer, he's the true cleaner.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09:

He is the cleaner.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_09:

But uh the ultimate helper.

SPEAKER_00:

No pun intended. So it's important to understand that uh that that love, right? The love language we should operate in as followers of Christ is agape love. And um agape love has attributes uh that's produced by the Spirit of God. And we went through that before. Selfless, placing the needs of that person before your own, loving in spite of.

SPEAKER_10:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

It's the thing that God always told me to do. There is a decision made to love even when there isn't a reason to. And that's what loving in spite of is. Are you at a place in God where you can make that decision to love people even when you have no reason?

SPEAKER_11:

But you can only do that through through the Holy Spirit, and you have to ask. God, teach me.

SPEAKER_00:

And the reality is when you're thinking about marriage, that's truly what sustains that marriage.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Right? That's truly what sustains it. That's what sustains your relationship with God.

SPEAKER_11:

Not the five love languages. No, the five agape love. It's agape love, it's God, the foundation, the rock that you're able to stand on. Not the gifts, not the affirmations, not the physical touch, which a lot of people go into relationship just because of that. And it stops, and then you stop.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, the physical touch, you got to be careful with that because sometimes it could lead to you wanting this so badly from this person, you get it, and then it's like this isn't enough. And now you start seeking it elsewhere.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Because that becomes your thing of saying, I need physical touch. This person isn't here because they're traveling, or whatever the case may be, or whatever is going on, and it's like, I gotta go and get this from someplace else.

SPEAKER_11:

Because it's your perception of what you think that you need.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. You got to be really careful, even like words of affirmation and all of these different things. It sounds great. Words of affirmation, acts of service, receiving gifts, quality, time, and physical touch. You know what's so challenging when I see all of this? I see a recipe for unfaithfulness.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah, because if I don't get those things, then my needs are unfulfilled.

SPEAKER_00:

And I need it from somewhere, so I would start seeking it elsewhere.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Male or female.

SPEAKER_11:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

This is why this is very challenging because this could teach you to approach love from a selfish perspective.

SPEAKER_11:

It teaches you to approach love from a worldly perspective.

SPEAKER_00:

It teaches you to approach love from a soulish perspective.

SPEAKER_11:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

And not a spiritual.

SPEAKER_11:

Because it's feeding your flesh.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. This is all about your flesh being fed.

SPEAKER_11:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Not your spirit.

SPEAKER_11:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

Your flesh.

SPEAKER_11:

This is why we talk about spirit mates and not soul mates. I don't need you to feed my soul, my flesh.

SPEAKER_00:

They're not gonna like this.

SPEAKER_11:

I need you to feel feed my spirit, cover me.

SPEAKER_00:

They're not gonna like it. But that that, you know, I'm not knocking anyone, I'm just calling it what it is. That's very soul-based, which is why a lot of people have challenges. I mean, when you listen to anyone that's struggling in their marriages, we hear it all the time, what, right? He or she was not giving me my needs.

SPEAKER_11:

You know, I was about to say my favorite movie.

unknown:

What?

SPEAKER_11:

Feed me.

unknown:

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I know. So the issue is that uh when you think about it, right? This is what people say when they're in counseling.

SPEAKER_11:

I can't watch it anymore.

SPEAKER_00:

No. This is what people say when they're in counseling and they're asking them, why did you step out on your marriage? Why do you feel like it's this? Why do you feel like it's that? It's like, oh, they don't affirm me. They don't affirm me. They don't spend time with me, they don't buy enough stuff for me, they don't, you know, all of these different things. They don't do anything for me. There's no physical touch here. They're not here enough to do these things. So I I sought this elsewhere.

SPEAKER_11:

And we're not saying that those things aren't important. We're saying those things are you can't lead with it. Are given when God instructs you to give it.

SPEAKER_00:

You can't lead with it.

SPEAKER_11:

You can't do it in your own strength.

SPEAKER_00:

You're you're that's not the and it's not the ultimate love language is agape love.

SPEAKER_11:

And you can't, you can't base your relationships with anybody off of your own perceptions of what you think that you need.

SPEAKER_00:

You have to have your mind renewed. Romans 12, 1 through 2.

SPEAKER_11:

It's like God, if this is your will, so be it. Let me know.

SPEAKER_00:

But once again, I I I firmly believe that with that, a lot of times you have to be careful because it will teach you the love from your soul.

SPEAKER_11:

What?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh the five love languages.

SPEAKER_11:

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

It's it's a very, it's an extremely soulish perspective. And I'm not saying that that's what the author meant, but I'm saying that that's how people take it.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah. And then they're like, okay, well, you can't be mad at this person because this is how they show love. And it's like, well, I'm not feeling it. I can see that this might be his language or this might be her language and how she expresses the way she loves me, but it's not fulfilling me. It's not doing anything for me. And that's because you're being, you were taught to love a person this way. You're not loving this person the way that they need to be loved because you're not God.

SPEAKER_00:

And then on top of that, um, that person also has to be in a space to make sure your mind is renewed to receiving and to approaching love the way that God has called for you to do it.

SPEAKER_10:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

So both parties are in a place of struggle because one is trying to love based on that the best way they know how, right, or based on what they think that person needs, or sometimes based on what how they love. Exactly. They want to be loved.

SPEAKER_10:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

And then the other party is going through what they're going through. But the issue is when we're moving away from love being the fruit of the spirit in 1 Corinthians 13, and we are adapting to things of the world.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's good. You want to get into what you wanted to discuss?

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah, sure. I didn't even see all the things that you were talking about, so I just let you go. Because you had some stuff on there, some that you didn't tell me about. But it's fine.

SPEAKER_00:

The floor is yours, ma'am.

SPEAKER_11:

It's mine. How much longer do we have? When do we start?

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know when we started. We probably have about 15 or more minutes or so.

SPEAKER_11:

Okay. Well, I guess this won't take very long much longer. I think the other um aspect of love, uh because I really I really didn't have anything to bring to the podcast this episode today. I mean, I was just piggybacking off of what you were given. But, you know, um I was grieving this week because my brother passed away. And so um, I was walking home and the Holy Spirit was speaking to me because I haven't talked to him in like a year, and then prior to that, and so I'm and basically because of lifestyle changes, and I'll have to get into it, but you know, I'll talk about it at some other time at another time, but I hadn't seen him in like a year, and then I get this call or meeting that he's gone. And I just was like, God, I know that um you called me to live a life separate from some family, some friends, you know, you have set me apart, and you know, it's been great, also, but it's also been sad and confusing because it's like on one hand, it's family, and then on the other hand, it's like, well, I gotta do what God wants me to do. And I was struggling, and the Holy Spirit just brought back to me, you know, Jesus and Lazarus, you know, like Jesus didn't want Lazarus to die, He didn't, but He had to let him, He had to let him go. And what came to me is that loving people, you have to love people enough to let them go. Even God sacrificed his own son, you know, and it was like Shinea. You love your family, but you have to love them enough to allow me to do my will and not your will. Because love is not controlling, it's it's unconditional, it's not what I want. Jesus decided to die on the cross, he didn't want to do it, but he did because he loved God, and it's like, okay, well, I love my family, but I love God more. I love God more, and it would be selfish of me to want to have my will pursued in someone else's life.

SPEAKER_00:

You have to let them make their own choice for their lives.

SPEAKER_11:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And understand that you can't be their God. No, and that's one of the greatest challenges to deal with, especially, you know, in something as serious as losing a loved one. As a follower of Christ, of course, you want to know whether they're they had an opportunity to get their lives right. Um yeah, it's challenging to uh leaving in God's hand without knowing, and then understanding that there are um sometimes family members in general of ours and former friends that choose to live a life that goes against uh God or the things of God, and it's nothing you can do about it.

SPEAKER_11:

No, there's nothing you can do about it, and it's like you can't I can't feel bad and I can't be sad. I've I mean, he's given me dreams, he's given me words um about family members and where they're kind of going and what direction. Are going and I'm praying, and but ultimately I can't impose my will on their will.

SPEAKER_00:

Which is is it it takes a lot to get to that point.

SPEAKER_11:

But even with you and me, you had to love me enough to let me go. Go.

SPEAKER_00:

And trust. Here's a challenge.

SPEAKER_11:

And trust the process.

SPEAKER_00:

Here's a challenge that people struggle with when we talk about this. If you decided to go against the will of God, I was still subjected to the will of God. So what that was meaning is that if you would have gone and married someone else or did whatever the case may be, God still told me what God still told me, and that don't change what he tells me. So that means I'm still subjected to the obedience of God, even when you are being disobedient.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And if I be disobedient, God would judge me accordingly, just like he would judge you accordingly for your disobedience.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And that comes into the that that now we're moving into that place of suffering for the name of Christ.

SPEAKER_10:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

So your friends and your families, when they're coming at you and calling you crazy or saying that you're all of these things, because you are simply submitting to God, saying, I don't want you connected to this because of what I'm doing in your life. And I don't need anyone stopping what I'm doing or hindering what I'm doing in your life. Right. That's suffering for the name or in the name of Christ.

SPEAKER_11:

Right. And it all, and that even brings me back to the other point that I was given with Jesus and the rich young ruler. You know, um, Jesus loved him enough. He loved him deeply, it said, to tell him the truth. Right. Like if you love me, you know, like if you want to follow, you gotta leave everything. And I know, like, I've told you've told, you told me the truth when we were going through, and I was like, You didn't want to hear it. I didn't want to hear it.

unknown:

Nope.

SPEAKER_11:

I didn't want to hear it at all. And so God was like, bruh, let her go. She'll be fine.

SPEAKER_00:

It was challenging, you know, because it's like and and you know, one of the things that God dealt with me on, and I know sis was talking to me about that too. It's like and reminding me, she's not rejecting you, she's rejecting me.

SPEAKER_11:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's what he would tell the prophets. I forgot which prophet it was in the Bible, but it was like they're not rejecting you because you're telling them the truth. Yeah.

SPEAKER_11:

And even when I tell my family members the truth, and I just recently told a family member the truth.

SPEAKER_00:

They're not rejecting you, they're rejecting you.

SPEAKER_11:

They're not rejecting me. And I and I took it as rejection. I did. I'm like, I took it as rejection, but it's like God told me to tell them this, and so I did.

SPEAKER_00:

So it's God that they're rejecting.

SPEAKER_11:

Yes. And so now it's like, well, I have to let them go.

SPEAKER_00:

And you have to remove yourself out of the equation, which is challenging to do, but that's how God has called us to live. And that goes to dying to self. Because I think uh going through the process that I went through uh with us, I remember, and I won't get into details, but I remember one particular night where um something happened out of a dream I had or whatever, and it was so traumatic. I went for a drive and my my my heart was heavy, and I came back home and I'm just being obedient to God, and God will tell you to do things and you do it. And I felt I felt something in me break.

SPEAKER_08:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I'm like, God, what is this? What is this that broke? And uh God was like, I just broke your will. And so that is the place that God is wanting to get us to. Because when um our will breaks, now we're in a space where we move.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Like Jesus.

SPEAKER_11:

Because it's not a space where it's like, okay, well, I don't care, you know, that they're not doing this anymore. Like, because then it's like you do care, but you're trying to protect yourself from the world.

SPEAKER_00:

You have to get to that space to where you're like, it's not even about me. I'm just doing what God has called me to do. It's not saying that you're not human, right? But it's like, bruh, this, and and that's the space I had got to at that point of like, okay, God, you know, this, it did not, for example, it didn't hurt the way that it hurt before.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And we talked about this before. It's since that encounter, as I encounter different things, I don't approach it the same way I approached it before, where I'm super emotional, super whatever. And sometimes I have to remind myself because it's really just, okay, God, this is what you have me doing.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

I have to submit to this. And so I submit. And yes, it's challenging. Yes, it can be tiring. Yes, it could be all of those things, but God has called you to that, and you stick to what God has called you to, in spite of.

SPEAKER_11:

In spite of, no matter who it is.

SPEAKER_00:

And that is the that's what following Christ looks like. That's what picking up your cross and following Christ looks like. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So heavy stuff, but good stuff.

SPEAKER_10:

Heavy stuff, good stuff.

SPEAKER_00:

So we discussed a lot tonight. Um I would say this. Ladies, please be careful. Men too, but uh women. Because um don't get caught up in a relationship that God has not called for you to be in and get caught up into something that is extremely abusive and toxic. And um, this is not a smiling moment. Um heed the red flags. Please heed the red flags. Men too, heed the red flags. There's there's red flags that's consistently in front of you, and you don't listen to them. And listen to people who's been in those situations who's trying to forewarn you. Like for me, I had example after example and situation after situation, and person after person that God tried to use to forewarn me from getting into the situation that I was in, and told me what was gonna happen. And I didn't listen.

SPEAKER_11:

Same. I knew exactly what was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00:

And the stuff that they said was gonna happen happened, and worse.

SPEAKER_11:

No, nobody told me. I just knew.

SPEAKER_00:

I well, I I had someone uh prophesy over me and I didn't understand it, and he didn't understand it at the time. Uh, but you know, it comes from not adhering those red flags, it comes from um not understanding how important it is. And this is why marriage, we said this before, outside of salvation is an extremely serious and major decision that you make.

SPEAKER_11:

But I think the other thing too is we net we didn't have the ability to discern what voice was ours, what thoughts were ours, what thoughts were others, what thoughts were the enemy, what thoughts were from God.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, see, because the church does not teach things.

SPEAKER_11:

Exactly. So we were confused and conflicted. And so it's like, I know I need to leave, I know I need to go here, but I'm hearing this, I'm hearing this, I'm not feeling this. And it's like not listening to that inner spirit, which is or God, literally speaking to you or having people speak to you. It's like they don't even teach that God still speaks. And so you're just going through life, just struggling. Struggling. Going through hell, thinking that these are your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00:

And is God really trying to get your attention, or it's the enemy speaking to you, trying to get you into something that you shouldn't be in.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

But it's very serious because it's very dangerous. I would say it's very dangerous to move outside the will of God.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah, so many men and women have lost their lives from from being in relationships and connected to people.

SPEAKER_00:

That's true.

SPEAKER_11:

And so many children have lost their lives because of, and I get emotional every time I talk about children. Um because disobedience. People get with people and they create these children with people God never intended for them to be with.

SPEAKER_00:

And then you look to God and say, God, why did this happen to my life? And God is like, because you chose that person. You chose that person, you chose not to listen to me.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And, you know, even with me, you know, some of the things that I've experienced and some of the things that we've had to deal with, right? And even now, some of the things that I see, I, you know, and we'll we'll discuss it later on, but those conversations and having to have some of those difficult conversations, it's challenging because you're reminded, I did this.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I did this, and you tried to forewarn me.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You tried to tell me not to, and now this is happening, and I can't control that. Now I have to be in a situation of saying, God, not only provide us with grace, but you get into a place where now you have to pray that God provide your children with grace.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Because you made the decision, and we talked about this before. When you make covenants, now it's your responsibility to look after that covenant. Not God's. It's yours. And we got to stop looking at God. And I get it, but we we're so quick to say this is God's fault. No, it's yours.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah. It's your mama's fault.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_11:

It's your daddy's fault.

SPEAKER_00:

It's their mother's fault. It's their father's fault. We talked about it.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Even specifically for African Americans. We have to dig into this because this ties all the way back to the fact that many of us were, uh our ancestors were slaves.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And they dealt with trauma. And they dealt with abuse. And they dealt with all of these things that was passed on in the bloodline that has never been dealt with. And it literally just transforms generation after generation after generation, and no one deals with it. And the only way that you can deal with it is through Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

The only way that you can deal with these covenants that's been made is through forming a new covenant with Jesus Christ by the blood of Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So please be really for those that aren't married, be careful. For those that are married, I would tell you, God don't want you in an abusive marriage. And anyone that says that to you, they don't know God. God don't want you in an abusive marriage.

SPEAKER_11:

No, and it's saying what I was saying earlier. It's letting them go. Loving them enough to let them go, to allow God to do what they're gonna do. You can't do nothing. You could pray, you could do all those things, but ultimately they have their own will, and you can't oppose your will on other people. That's witchcraft.

SPEAKER_00:

Don't I am telling you.

SPEAKER_11:

And that's not to say you can't pray for your husband and you can't pray for your wife.

SPEAKER_00:

Listen to me.

SPEAKER_11:

But you have to be led by God.

SPEAKER_00:

Let me forewarn you, coming from my own personal life, when my mother was first with the guy that she was with, he beat on her. He, and this is really heavy, but it's the truth, he beat on her. Um he tore her down emotionally and mentally. He pulled her away from her family and her friends, he isolated her, and he made her think that she wasn't worth being with anybody else. No one else wanted her. And she left because of it. But the church told her to go back.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Her pastor told her to go back. And when she went back, it went from him beating on her to beating on all of us.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And he grew more aggressively. And it went to him doing things to my sister that can never be undone.

SPEAKER_10:

Sexually assaulting.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. And so with that being the case, I am saying this because this is serious. This is serious. It's a pattern of how they go. If he's controlling, if he is gaslighting you, if he is speaking negatively towards you, if he is hitting walls and hitting doors, if he's throwing objects, if he's doing all of these things, these are, and I don't even know why I'm going here, but we're just gonna go with it. If he's doing all of these things, these are signs to tell you that this is serious and you need to get out. I am telling you, as someone who is a survivor of it, as a child who is a survivor of it, that man, because it's mostly men, men sometimes we be in situations, but it's different.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But it's, and I'm not saying that this applies to you as well, men, but I'm speaking to women because men, women being it more so than men.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm just gonna let you know the best thing you can do is walk away from that. Ask God to give you wisdom and don't get into it. If you're not married and he's already doing all this stuff, please run.

SPEAKER_11:

I think it's gonna get better.

SPEAKER_00:

It won't, it's only gonna get worse.

SPEAKER_11:

Don't have anyone, and this is why we say you have to have your own personal relationship with God so that you can discern the voices. Discern voices, people who are speaking to you. Because they can speak curses over you, they can speak things into your life to make you feel like, oh, I'm not worthy and I need to stay. I'm not good enough, so I have to stay. I've made the decision already. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00:

Don't do it. I'm telling you as a man who is married, that stuff ain't normal.

SPEAKER_11:

And telling you as a woman who's also been through that stuff is not normal.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't speak negatively relationship to my wife. I don't call her outside her name. We don't argue like that. We don't we don't do those things. And if I do something um that's not right, or I say something that's not right, immediately the Holy Spirit will convict me.

SPEAKER_11:

He sure will.

SPEAKER_00:

And so you can be in a marriage where you're not arguing like that, you're not fussing, you're not fighting, and and vice versa. Yeah, like you could be in that type of marriage um where those things are there. It's called self-control. And that's what a part of the fruit of the spirit. And so God don't like for you to be treated that way. He don't.

SPEAKER_11:

No, because you are his child.

SPEAKER_00:

You are like like especially for women, there the Bible says that when God, the Bible says that when a man finds a wife, he attain, he obtains favor from the Lord. You are favor. You are favor. So please trust me when I say God don't want you being treated any type of way. I don't know who this is for, but that's just there.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_11:

And we say this because we have little girls.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_11:

And so And we've seen abusive relationships.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_11:

I've been in one. Yes, and we've witnessed them.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_11:

Well, you've been in an abuse relationship with a woman.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. It was interesting.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I've also experienced it as a child. So it's not saying that it can't happen in men because it can.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

It can happen.

SPEAKER_11:

But the main thing, it affects you, but even when you leave this relationship, it affects your children.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's how those bloodline curses continue on. And now you have to try to contend for your children to um protect them and to uh work through challenging situations like that. That's why we say don't do anything outside of God. So you don't have to have the wisdom of God on how to work through instances of situation where you're trying to not have your child or yourself exposed to things that are not of God, both men and women, but I'm speaking specifically to women because it happens to them a lot more. It does happen to us, and we have our stories. And men, the same thing goes for us. One of the things I would say to a man, don't marry a woman simply because you got her pregnant. If there is a red flag, if she is tripping over the littlest thing, if she lacks self-control, if she gets angry easily or whatever, if she's calling you outside of your name, run as fast as you can from her. Because that's not God's will for your life either. No, that's not what God has called you to. God is not called for anyone to be in a situation where they're being abused by their spouse. This is some serious stuff because a lot of people are going through it. In the church, it is happening quietly.

SPEAKER_11:

And we talk about it a lot. Satan puts people together as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, to destroy.

SPEAKER_11:

Just like he sends people in your life.

SPEAKER_00:

The Bible says the enemy comes to still kill and destroy. And destroy.

SPEAKER_11:

And he will do it by any means.

SPEAKER_00:

Which is why we we I we can't stress enough, you have to have your own personal relationship with God so you can hear the voice of God for your life and yield to that voice. But especially with marriage, I would rather you be single and take your time so that when you get to a point, you know without a shadow of a doubt that this is the person that God has called you to be with, both male and female. You know that you know that you know that you know there is not a sh like a doubt in the world. I know this is who God has called me to be with because it is dangerous.

SPEAKER_11:

Right. And it's not a feeling, it's just you just know. Exactly. Like even with us, it's just you just know. You know. I didn't know why I knew, I just knew.

SPEAKER_00:

Mm-hmm. It is what it is. So uh that is that, and that goes back into understanding the love of God for your life. When you understand the love of God for your life, it's hard to get into situations like that because you'll be like, no, women, you'll be like, no, no, no, no. That's not how my daddy loves you.

SPEAKER_11:

The Holy Spirit reveals, He reveals all the secrets.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11:

He reveals all the secrets. So that person you might be dating, he's gonna tell you no, because he knows that person's secrets. He knows what that person's gonna do down the line tomorrow, in a few minutes, in an hour.

SPEAKER_00:

It's that we we just don't pay attention to the gut feelings. We don't pay attention to that thing deep down inside.

SPEAKER_11:

Because they don't be there, it's not taught because it we're taught to go off of facts. We're taught to go off of what we see with our natural eye.

SPEAKER_00:

Interestingly, look at this, and I think my wife can attest, but I'll speak for myself. I had plethora of quote unquote gut feelings of telling me, run. Same. Run. And I did not listen. And then when I wasn't listening to the spirit of God that was trying to speak to me, right? Now I have people that God is sending to me. Don't marry her. Look, don't do that, don't be with her, don't be in that relationship.

SPEAKER_11:

My entire body was convulsing.

SPEAKER_00:

Don't do it. And we don't listen.

SPEAKER_11:

Don't do this. And I was like, uh, but I fought through it because I was already there that day.

SPEAKER_00:

The thing is, I was so far removed from a church where I had leaders who truly knew God. I was in charismatic churches where you taught the basic stuff. You're not, you don't, you're not teach, you're not really teaching how to hear the voice of God. There's not any uh examples. There's not, they don't, they're not flowing within the prophetic. They don't truly believe, they speak on it, but they don't truly believe in the gifts of the spirit. They don't do those things. Because as a leader, you should be able to see something and say, that you're about to make a decision, don't do it.

SPEAKER_11:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Don't make that decision.

SPEAKER_11:

Or you have elders who see what's going on, but they don't say anything.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. I know that was for me. Actually, and I'll I'll I'll we'll we'll get ready to uh wrap this up. Actually, for me, I take that back because I remember Pastor Jermaine had a conversation with me. He pulled me to the side and he said, I cannot in good faith marry you.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

He said that um I remember it like it was yesterday. He said, What I see in this therapy, because he took me uh and her through therapy, and my uh and his wife was there, amazing woman. He said, I see you taking accountability for the stuff that you're going you you've done and her blaming you. And that is a major red flag.

SPEAKER_08:

Same.

SPEAKER_00:

And I am telling you, I remember him telling me this. He said, I am telling you that whatever you do, I know that you have these things going on. I know that she's pregnant, I know this stuff, but whatever you do, do not marry her.

SPEAKER_11:

Same thing in the same counseling set it.

SPEAKER_00:

And I did not listen. Same. Well, and when he found out that we went through with it, I could see on his face when he saw me, he was broken for me.

SPEAKER_09:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

He was mourning for me because he knew what I was about to go through. And I went through it.

SPEAKER_09:

Hell.

SPEAKER_00:

I went through it. And it was the stench that we speak of. Now we look at the spiritual perspective. The stench is there, right? And so now I'm going through the very, I know this, and I told you this. The very same things, interestingly speaking, the very same things that my mom's ex-husband spoke over me when he would attack me verbally and say those things, they started saying the same thing.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

The same words, the same insults over and over again. Uh calling out um call Nino, the the and this is gonna be a very challenging episode for some people, but it needs to be heard. The the calling you stupid, calling you worthless, calling you a loser, um, making them uh mocking the things that you went through as a child, uh, blaming you for it, all of those different things. Yeah, that ain't God. That's not God, that's not healthy. That's demonic. That's demonic. It's not how God is called.

SPEAKER_11:

It's to break your spirit, it's to break your soul, to fracture your soul.

SPEAKER_00:

Now look at this. The same way my mom had someone saying that you need to stay, the same people at the church were saying the same thing to me, right? Or in a different situation. Yes, God don't like divorce. Yes, well, God never put it together.

SPEAKER_10:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

God never put that marriage together. You put that marriage together.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Stop listening to these people when you put that marriage together. You put it together. God didn't put it together. You think you think God, once you've gone through that, women, men, He don't. He has greater for you. He loves you too much to put you into a situation where someone is tearing you down over and over and over and over again. And the church has to do a better job at teaching us the truth.

SPEAKER_11:

No, because I think that you can just pray it away.

SPEAKER_00:

You can.

SPEAKER_11:

But you can't. It's not, they don't even pray it away, they just get complacent.

SPEAKER_00:

In good faith, I could never tell any woman, and this is I I heard the the man talk about this, and we heard him say this. If he finds out that a woman is being abused and she calls and then she gets advice from him, he would tell her, run as far as you can away from that person. That's what we need to get to, including the church.

SPEAKER_10:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And we have some that are doing it, we have some that are starting to speak out on it.

SPEAKER_10:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

But that's that. So my prayers are with you all that you would literally take all of these episodes that God has placed on us to do. I don't, I I I was not expecting to do that tonight. I was expecting to end.

SPEAKER_11:

No, it's it's exactly the truth. Same with me. Same elders in the church. Hey, he's abusing you, just go downstairs and lock the door. Huh?

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11:

What do you mean? Go downstairs and lock the door. I'm in the same house. I'm in the same place. Why?

SPEAKER_00:

That's the challenge.

SPEAKER_11:

Like, it don't make any sense. And then you have people with church urgent wondering why they don't give their life to Christ.

SPEAKER_00:

Because of the challenge is this. Grandma went through it. Granddad went through it.

SPEAKER_11:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Our uncles went through it. Our aunts went through it.

SPEAKER_11:

No, my entire family, all the women in my life.

SPEAKER_00:

They all go through it, so now they they see it as being something that's normal.

SPEAKER_11:

My grandma, my great grandma, my mom, my aunt, my cousins.

SPEAKER_00:

Now, I would say with my uh, she's not my biological grandma, but my grandma that my granddad was married to when he passed away. You know, she's like, bruh, I ain't having it. You got the wrong one, bruh, bruh. And and you know, that's just who her attitude was like, I'm not having it. You're not gonna do that to me. I did all of this, and you're not gonna do that to me. And so I don't, and you know, not saying that my my granddad was abusive, I don't think he was, but um, he, you know, she would not even like go for it at all. She was just, but it's because uh she talked to me, and interestingly, uh, with her story, her uh her mom was rough around the edges, but her dad was super loving. Yeah, and so because of that, uh, you know, she didn't have quote unquote daddy issues, yes, so it created in her a confidence, an identity, yes, and so uh that's why it's important as men that we know God and that we have a relationship with God so we can love our daughters right, yeah, so they can form their identity.

SPEAKER_11:

But not only that, in your in your sons, but not only that, um how I love you and how I treat you, they're watching that.

SPEAKER_10:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

So if I treat you wrong, if I don't love you right, it's it can be negatively impactful on them.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah. They'll either choose someone just like you or believe that they deserve it just like me, or get resentful for me, of me not sticking up, or you know, it's just it could now it's repeating that cycle.

SPEAKER_00:

That's why it's so much responsibility placed on it, but I know we got off, so we're gonna let it be that.

SPEAKER_11:

No, because we're gonna have another conversation about this.

SPEAKER_00:

So um, that's everything. Anything else you want to add tonight?

SPEAKER_11:

No, babe. I think we we can talk about this um in another episode.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, we pray this has been a blessing to you. I don't know who that was for. Um, I was not expecting to go there, but we did. My prayers are with you, my wife's prayers are with you. We appreciate you all.

SPEAKER_11:

Um, you are not alone.

SPEAKER_00:

No, you're not. We all have stuff that we we've dealt with, we've gone through. Yes, and God has kept us.

SPEAKER_11:

God has kept us tremendously.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I told you.

SPEAKER_11:

He has had our his hand on us.

SPEAKER_00:

I remember telling a uh, and I'll go after this. I remember telling a male friend of mine my my testimony.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I went of what I went through as a child.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And in detail. And he was like, bro, he's like, I'm surprised you're still here.

SPEAKER_08:

Same.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, I can't believe you're still here. Because he's like, many men in that situation would have literally ended it.

SPEAKER_08:

Ended that.

SPEAKER_00:

Because of the amount. And he's like, I don't think you, I yeah, he's like, I don't think you realize how strong you are to have walked through that.

SPEAKER_11:

And when you go back and you and when we've talked to each other about the things we've gone through, it's like, bruh, yeah, how did you get here?

SPEAKER_00:

The grace of God kept us. I'm talking uh abuse every single day.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And you, you know, it as a seven-year-old child, uh, six-year-old child, you're trying to process through your mind, yeah. Um, I gotta go through this until I'm 18.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah, for me, I don't even remember.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Some stuff I don't that my sister brings back to my attention.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh, you know, there's certain things that I blocked out that's that sis would bring back to my attention that we went through and that we dealt with. Um, but even now, like I don't hate him. He's no longer here. He actually, my mom's ex-husband passed away when he was like 50 something years old.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Or something like that. He passed away young.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I know where he is, and it's not a good place. But um, and it's not even what I wished, it's just, you know, for him, and this is the thing that we're saying, and we gotta go. But the point that we were making, in many cases, and I'm not saying it's not possible, but in many cases, they never change.

SPEAKER_08:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

Because he never changed. He continued this as far as the victimization of children and all of these different things, he continues.

SPEAKER_11:

They don't change because they don't have consequences.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. He continued this until he passed away.

SPEAKER_11:

Until they have overt consequences, people don't, they don't change.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11:

They just continue the behavior.

SPEAKER_00:

This is why we tell you you have to really be careful of who you do life with.

SPEAKER_11:

Yes. Don't and and and even if you think you want to talk to a person, look at their past, look at their family, look at their their do they have children? Have they been married before? And more importantly, talk to God. But you can see, you can see what your natural acts study patterns. Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And we gotta get, we gotta, we gotta look at patterns, even if our in uh in our own lives.

SPEAKER_10:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Start studying the patterns of your bloodline so you can see what you're dealing with. Because the man of God talked about this. I forgot his name, but he talked about how they'll go into the house and they try to clean a room, but they don't deal with the stronghold, the one that was in Haiti.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah, the um uh last name is Brever, I believe. A brewer, brewer.

SPEAKER_00:

And he talked about how they don't deal with the strongman, and that's the problem. We're not dealing with the strongman. We're trying to clean the rooms, but we're not dealing with the strongman. Yeah, and that's how you that's how you find freedom. You gotta deal with the strong man first.

SPEAKER_11:

Right, which is therapy is the I'm cleaning my room. I'm cleaning my room, but I haven't delivered myself from the person in the house.

SPEAKER_00:

There are, you know.

SPEAKER_11:

That keeps it being dirty.

SPEAKER_00:

I went through therapy, right?

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And um there were instances and situations that as I went through prayer, yeah, because I would go through prayer consistently every day. God would tell me, okay, I want you to pray about this. Yeah, I'm about to take you through a healing session. And there were things that were brought back to my attention that happened as a child, yes, that I compartmentalized because it was so traumatic. Yes, that God brought brought back up. Yes, that I had to deal with. That sometimes therapy doesn't bring you, uh bring out of you.

SPEAKER_11:

And even if you do get those memories back, you have to give it to God. God is like, I'm bringing this back to you so I can give it to you. A lot of times when you're in therapy, something comes back to your recollection. But when God does the healing, you still get those same feelings, those same emotions that you had in that moment.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, see, it was so practical because as I was going through those healing uh sessions and going through healing.

SPEAKER_11:

For me, anyway, I guess I can't speak for you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I would say I would be taken through this, right? And it would be like, okay, I would like even with you, it's hard to explain. And it's possible. The Bible talks about what? Sharing each other's burdens.

SPEAKER_11:

Yes, sharing each other's.

SPEAKER_00:

Before people be like, oh, you're you're lying.

SPEAKER_11:

No, no, no. You got it the Bible is Bible. It says to share each other's burdens. We can share each other's burdens, and we can share a lot.

SPEAKER_00:

The problem is this, y'all gotta realize that the scripture is alive and real. We're not reading Bible stories. No, we're reading accounts of people's lives.

SPEAKER_10:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. So as I was going through the process, I was sharing sharing your burden.

SPEAKER_10:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And what God would tell me, and what you were saying, is as that pain would be placed on me, I'm taking this off of me. I'm taking this burden off of me, and I'm laying it down at the feet of the father, the father. Yeah. I'm giving it over to him.

SPEAKER_06:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And this is what we have to do. You have to take those burdens off of you, and you have to say, Father, I am laying these down at the foot of your altar and giving it over to you. Because the Bible tells us what? Cast our burdens on him.

SPEAKER_11:

Right. And his yoke is easy.

SPEAKER_00:

And I'm doing these things, and I knew the Bible, I knew the ins and outs, read the Bibles, and we gotta go. But uh, you know, doing these things and not realizing I'm doing scripture.

SPEAKER_10:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Jesus has me going through scripture, and then you find it back in scripture. Lay my burdens down. Exactly. Cast your burdens on me. Uh, carrying your uh carrying your your your taking upon his yoke, taking upon his yoke, and then also uh praying upon your behalf. The scripture talks about all of this travailing, travailing, all of these different things we we'll get into this, but yeah, we're gonna go.

SPEAKER_11:

So but you need those people in your life that are able to do that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, and we will leave it at that. We say it a lot tonight. God bless you all. We appreciate you, we love you, we love you till next time.

SPEAKER_11:

Goodbye.

SPEAKER_00:

Goodbye.